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Aug
10

When did everything become so casual?

taken by dimnikolov - from flickr

<rant>I have a serious issue with the lack of formality that has become acceptable in recent society.

Less than 15 years ago, if you attended a play, dined at a 4 star restaurant, flew first class, etc; you dressed for the occasion. Last year, I went to see Wicked at the Pantages theater in LA. It was an amazing performance – moving and very well done. But I was rather annoyed with some of the attendees. They technically did nothing wrong, but seeing more than a quarter of the attendees in t-shirts, jeans and tennis shoes or flip flops seriously ticked me off. Why? Because just 12 years prior, I attended Phantom of the Opera in San Francisco and casual was not there…women in cocktail dresses, men in suits…the theater oozed glamor. Now, it’s like going to the movies, with a much pricier ticket! Dinners are the same way. Restaurants like Ruth Chris, Morton’s and Maestro’s all have signs out front – proper attired required. This used to mean, at a minimum, dressy jeans and a nice blouse for women and dress jeans and a button up for men. But, in the last few times my husband and I went to dinner at these restaurants, it seemed that shorts and flip flops were now “proper attire”…and I was properly appalled.

Dressing up for an event or a dinner has a reason: it shows respect for the performers, the other guests and the location. It says that you appreciate the value and that you respect where you are and what you are doing. Now it seems that “casual” is an acceptable attire no matter the venue, and I am both bothered and confused.

Let’s take a step back and look at this from a business perspective: Imagine if a client of yours walked into your office, where the  dress was business formal, in their sweats. What would you think? You would probably think they either had zero respect for you and your time, or that they just don’t care about why they were coming to see you. You would be bothered and probably lose some of the desire to work with them.

The way that you dress speaks volumes about who you are – and how you feel about yourself and society. And, there is absolutely zero reason that you can’t dress appropriately. Almost every clothing store, from Target to Barney’s caries business and formal dress clothes, which means that there is something for every budget. And, if you can afford a play ticket or a 4 star restaurant, you can certainly afford to dress up a bit. You don’t need designers and overprices closed to say “I care”, you just need a little more formality.

Does anyone else see this trend? What do you think of the casualness that has taken over society?</rant>

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  • http://blog.fmidm.com steve olenski

    Hey Kirsten, my dream is for a client to walk in sweatpants! Seriously, it would not bother me in the least. I am an extremely informal person who abhors a shirt & tie. I did the Corporate Tango for 5 years and I hated every second of it and a big reason for that was the mandate to wear a shirt and tie every stinking day.nnMy goal is to be able to work wearing shorts, sandals and a t-shirt every day.nnI’ve just always believed what’s inside is what counts. The type of person you are, the type of work you provide etc is exponentially more important. nnMaybe that’s just me…nnEither way, a great thought-provoking post! nSteve O

    • Anonymous

      Steve, But your attire is sweatpants – so they would be dressing appropriately if they walked in that way, right? Now, what about plays? 4 star restaurants? Would you go to those locations in sweatpants? I just feel that people are forgetting what is appropriate to wear to locations…

      • http://blog.fmidm.com steve olenski

        Would they be dressing appropriately if they dressed that way? meaning clients? Yes, if thats how they want to dress. what do I care? In fact, I would prefer it. Makes things more comfortable and you dont have to put on any false airs…nnAs for personal stuff… plays, restaurants… while I do like “dressing up” and all, I am just as comfortable in shorts, sweats, what-have-you… again, this is just me… nnI surely do not mean it as a sign of disrespect… not in the least. nn(BTW) not sure why, but the background in the comment section is the same as the site and it makes it harder to type comments in… not sure if you knew that or not) nnn

        • http://twitter.com/BillKingOC Bill King

          I see Steve’s point but think it should only be in the context of what you do. Sure, computer techies can get by with jeans, but should at least wear some type of collar or at least a nice collarless shirt, not an “Affliction” t-shirt. As a lawyer, I believe my partners should wear dark or designer jeans and the same types of shirts above. One partner wears all kinds of UFC or Ed Hardy type shirts. Drives me nuts. Clients come in in shorts and flip flops. I don’t care. But when I’m eating at a nice steakhouse, I do care. It’s a formal setting with courses. Wear pants and shoes…otherwise, go to Outback for your steak. Admittedly, this is from my dad, but I appreciate that he taught me how to dress for the occasion….and how to hold a fork properly when cutting a steak.

  • http://twitter.com/tylertravitz tylertravitz

    So you are saying you can judge a book by it’s cover?nnWhat about Steve Jobs? Regarded as one of the best and brightest CEO’s in the world, you’d never catch him in a suit. Never.nnI don’t think things are that cut and dry. I agree that certain situations call for more formality than others and you should always know your audience. However, I personally feel that employers could and should go farther to encourage employees to work in the way that works best for them.

  • Anonymous

    I think some of the point of my post may have been missed…a lot of hang ups over the business reference when the main point of the article is dressing appropriately for the situation. If you are attending a formal dinner, you should be dressed formally! If you are meeting with a person who wears 3 piece suits every day, wear a three piece suit. If they wear jeans and t-shirts, then it is okay for you to wear jeans and t-shirts. I used the business thing as an example – I am more concerned about the fact that there are people in flip flops and shorts at restaurants and plays where the attire is usually suits. Even Steve Jobs would wear real shoes and slacks to Broadway…

  • http://twitter.com/BillKingOC Bill King

    I hate this trend as well. I almost think that “these” people don’t really know how to dress so they tell themselves, “It’s SoCal and we’re all casual all the time.” I don’t mind it as much when clients come in that way, but I do mind it when my partners dress down. We’re really casual as you know, but I try to make sure I have slacks and a long-sleeve collar for that surprise client. In either forum, the way I carry myself and dress determines the respect and deference I get when first meeting with someone.

    • Anonymous

      Completely agree! Especially with the point you made to Steve regarding Outback…maybe it is just the difference in upbringing? I was raised the same way – you dress up to go out!

  • http://www.sukhrajbeasla.com Sukhraj Beasla

    Wow, you have quite the discussion here. What annoys me the most is when I see people in PJs at a grocery store. Is that proper grocery store attire? PJs seriously? You couldn’t be bothered with jeans? I’ll admit that I’ve been sick, in dire need of meds/soup, and I’ve wanted to go out in my PJs to get that stuff but I refuse to be seen in my bedroom attire. Same goes for other environments.nnI also saw Wicked at the Pantages a few years ago. I was in a cocktail dress however the rest of SoCal was in jeans. I guess casual has become the norm. It’s a shame. As much as I appreciate casual; I won’t allow it in a social setting.

    • Anonymous

      Oh, great one! I definitely agree with the shopping. Every once in a while I will go in workout clothes, but that is usually when I am just grabbing dinner on the way hope from a workout class. nnIt was funny, actually just this past weekend I went to SF…we stayed at the Hilton and went downstairs for breakfast the first morning. I was given crap for doing my hair and makeup and getting dressed for it – all the other girls wore their PJ’s down. It just isn’t appropriate!

      • http://www.sukhrajbeasla.com Sukhraj Beasla

        Going out in workout clothes is still somewhat appropriate. If I need something quick from the grocery store and I’m at the gym nearby, there’s no point in heading home to shower just to head back out again; this vastly differs from PJ attire.nnI’ve had the same PJ experience at hotels as well. I get dressed for the day and then head out for breakfast so we can just leave from there vs heading back into our room to get showered, changed etc.

      • http://twitter.com/BillKingOC Bill King

        I will say that women can get a pass for PJs and/or workout gear, though it tends to depend on how cute they are….the women, I mean. ;-)

        • http://www.sukhrajbeasla.com Sukhraj Beasla

          Really? I think it just shows how lazy they are. :P

  • Anonymous

    Wow. I couldn’t disagree more. To me any trend towards casual is a positive thing. I’ll dress up when I have to but it’s such a relief to not have to wear a tie and dress pants.

    • Anonymous

      That is the point though – you should dress up when you have to. Many people just don’t dress up at all….ever! Look, if you go to somewhere where the attire is meant to be dress clothing, then wear it. I guarantee your dress pants are 1000x more comfortable than my dress and 4 inch high heels all night.

      • Anonymous

        What I mean by “when I have to” is that I dress up for clients. That’s about it. If I go out to a play or another event then I might dress up, I might not. Either way the trend towards t-shirt and jeans is all positive in my view. Eventually maybe I won’t have to dress up for anything. That would be a great world. :)

    • http://jamie.sandford.org/ Jamie Sandford

      Adam, it’s probably your shirt that’s too tight, not your tie being a problem. Ties should never be an issue. Ever. It’s almost always the fact that the top button on your shirt is too tight (and you have to button that if you wear a tie).

      • Anonymous

        :) This is my brother’s reaction too, just talking about this with him last week. It’s not about physical comfort (although that can be a concern). It’s more of a mental thing for me. I feel out of place and awkward when dressed up. It’s just not me. Fit of clothes has little to do with it.

  • http://twitter.com/JohnBalla John Balla

    I agree with your point that your attire projects your regard for the people around you. Your behavior also projects how you regard the people around you, and unfortunately it seems that common courtesies are becoming less common.rnrnI work at a software company where I occasionally see co-workers in shorts and flip-flops, and my son asked me why I didn’t just go ahead and do that. I told him that I cared about my job and that I thought people would take me less seriously if I showed up at work looking like I was ready to play I also pointed out that the building is airconditioned, so even when it’s 100 degrees outside, it’s okay to wear khakis and a collared shirt to work.rnrnIn the case of my daughter, she showed up to a play at our local performing arts center wearing flip-flops and jeans (I honestly didn’t notice until we got there). Afterward, I wondered if I was being too harsh by telling her that just because she sees other people doing it, that doesn’t mean she should do it. I appreciate the reminder – thanks for the post.rn

    • Anonymous

      John,nnThanks so much for sharing – and raising your kids to understand the value of dressing well. I think that if more of us remember that dressing well shows we care about where we are that maybe less will show up in flip flops to funerals. I think your point about behavior is definitely valid – and adds to the issues. Many of the people that dress so casually also act casually too, which just builds on the issues.

      • http://blog.fmidm.com steve olenski

        Ok, I’ve given this some more thought… nnMy wife, God love for putting up with me, is always reminding me of what I am wearing to work. She will often to “rein me in” and make not-so-subtle reminders for me to change my attire, which I normally do. nnBUT she also understands that this is who I am. nnI think Adam (adamleedesign) nailed it when he said he dressed up when he has to. nnThat’s precisely how I feel.nnAs for your upbringing point Kirsten, that doesn’t apply in my case.nnI am the youngest of 6 and one of my brothers, without fail, wears a suit and tie to work every single day. The rest of us are kind of in the middle, some more toward him, some toward my end of the closet. nnThe bottom line for me (as far as work goes) the quality, passion and drive that I will put up against anyone should usurp any pre-conceived ideas someone may have of me based solely on how I am dressed.

      • Anonymous

        This is sounding a lot like a moral argument. This isn’t morality or ethics. This is more about preference and tradition. Do you disagree?

        • http://twitter.com/JohnBalla John Balla

          Hi Adam,rnrnFor me, it’s not a question of morality, it’s more a matter of tradition and courtesy. Every society has norms of conduct, which also include right ways and wrong ways to dress. And while there are trends that ebb and flow, there are general boundaries that stay relatively fixed (including obvious ones, such as nudity is not acceptable in most public places, you don’t fart or belch around others, etc.).rnrnOne common denominator that crosses all socioeconomic boundaries and even cultures are that people that are “raised right” are generally polite, deferential to elders and to authority, follow laws and rules, pay their taxes, and are generally courteous to others. And the way they dress reflects how they feel about themselves and also how they feel about others.rnrnIf your choice of dress only takes into account how you feel and whether or not you’re comfortable, then it signals that you don’t care about the people around you.

          • Anonymous

            John, Interesting points. I can see where you’re coming from for sure. I was raised to dress up for certain events including Thanksgiving dinner etc. nnTo me the point that Kirsten has raised about dress trending towards more casual is an important one. Historically it has been appropriate to dress up for the events that she mentioned. However, if that expectation is changing then a few years down the road the casual people could be calling out the ones that dress up for ruining their casual environment. I don’t know if this will happen but I think it shows the somewhat arbitrary nature of what attire is appropriate at different times.nnFurther, it seems odd to criticize those who would dress casually for only caring about their own comfort. I don’t see why it’s anymore inconsiderate of them to not dress the way you want them to then it is for you to not dress in the way that they think is appropriate. I agree that historically dressing up has been appropriate for certain things. My point is that that is an arbitrary rule that’s not based on right and wrong but on tradition. Tradition can be important but it’s not necessarily wrong to not follow tradition. nnHope this doesn’t sound to confrontational. I can see where you’re coming from I just have a different point of view.

          • Silver

            Norms of conduct change. Society changes. That’s more permanent than any tradition.

            I can see the points being made here, but if you’re paying for a service, then everything after that is your prerogative as long as you don’t leave all the naughty bits hanging everywhere/ have your pants around your ankles. I for one don’t see much point in dressing up just to eat, especially with the threat of food stains getting all over my best clothes. A restaurant seems like the absolute WORST place to get dressed up.

            You could also look at it from the other direction; dressing up shows you think you’re better than the people around you. Not all of us can afford to buy a cocktail dress to go see the latest play in the theater you know. The ticket price alone is high enough for those of us on a college student income.

  • Vance Byron

    I think that dressing appropriately for the situation also helps you create a positive first impression. A bad first impression is hard to get past. A good first impression usually opens doors for you. You never know who may be watching you or overhear what you are talking about. Being “on par for the course” shows that you understand and respect the social norms of your environment. It goes back to the old saying “If everyone else jumped off a bridge…would you?” Just because you see others do it doesn’t mean it should be acceptable.

  • Brandi

    Hey Kirsten, just found your site, and I have to admit, I’m a little captivated by the discussion (even if I’m a little late to the party).

    My first reaction is that I’m okay with casual attire in all situations, that I don’t usually care what people are wearing, or what I am for that matter… except, I realized that I’m NOT okay with it. I’m with you, there are absolutely times when flip-flops or even jeans aren’t okay. I’ve got a mental list of appropriate outfits for different social/business situations, and I’ll adjust what I’m wearing because it matters to me that I match the occasion. I’ve been under-dressed at events before and felt so out of place; I hate that feeling. And while I can overlook or rationalize most situations, my biggest pet peeve is seeing casual attire at a wedding. I do not care if it says “casual attire”; I’ll put on a nice dress and heels.

    So, yes, I agree 110% with your point! Social etiquette is dying a little. I think it even goes beyond just attire, and includes speech and attitude, too. For example, I do not speak to potential clients the way I would a friend – that’s not appropriate to me. One friend in particular speaks to everyone like they’re sitting in a bar or at a baseball game, and it drives me nuts because she’s old enough to know better. It’s such a turn off to see a well-dressed person who doesn’t moderate what they say, when they say it, and to whom. In fact, if I had to choose, I’d prefer appropriate speech over appropriate dress any day.

    • Anonymous

      Brandi, Better late than never ;) I appreciate your input and perspective. I have a friend similar to the one you discuss, and I feel the same way about her behavior towards clients. Appropriateness and etiquette just seem to be falling to the wayside anymore…

  • http://ariherzog.com Ari Herzog

    Perhaps instead of asking why people are casual you should ask why people are formal. Going back in time, people wore less clothes, not more. Your ancestors walked outside wearing only a loincloth over their private parts. They’d shriek at today’s Western standards, and many Westerners shriek at Eastern standards.

    Perhaps it should matter less what a person looks like and more who a person is. Doesn’t confidence matter anymore?

    • http://www.brandigirlblog.com Brandi

      Ari, I think it’s less about clothing and more about the attitude of social etiquette. No matter the culture, or the time in history, there are social customs observed. Sure, lots of standards are considered rude or strange by another culture, but within a culture there are norms. I read clothing as being an example. Behavior would be another.

      And of course confidence and who a person is matters (at least to me). But I don’t think that’s the real issue.

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